[Saerin]

well donating a ton of money is well and good for the creators of the game. It gives them the ability to keep the game going and improve it when possible. so donators should have a benefit. with that i agree.

If someone wants to donate $400 a month well that is there choice. Me...I could pay rent on my apartment for $400 and as such will not be donating that much. will that person ruin a game by doing that? it is possible.

Trying to balance the game is going to be tough and there will probably be players that leave because of the changes that are or are not implemented.

The real question is why do you play this game?

Me? I play to have some fun with friends and maybe...just maybe make a few new ones. Often people lose sight of it being just a game. I dont care about being the "Best Player" I care about being the "Best Person".

I am sure that most players wont leave over this and I also have faith that Zenith will find a fair resolution that will be for the betterment of the game.

[Guest]

I wouldn't say put a cap on donations or ability to use credits, but I would suggest a couple of things:

1: Make endurance less effective. If someone has bought so much endurance that they can get a 3+:1 points to energy level, that's too much. Makes it so that they are untouchable, even if they completely stopped buying refreshes. This in my opinion creates the largest imbalance, if a user can make 10x as many stat gains than another using the same amount of energy.

2: Make the returns from credits donations diminishing. After a certain level, make returns per credit start to drop off in effectiveness, decreasing substantially as more are used in a certain amount of time. If after so many credits are used, a player can only get 0.01 endurance points per credit, this should certainly slow most down at least a bit.


I have to say though, I'm not too worried overall. We have seen this situation time and time again in this game, so far with pretty similar results. First, we had CASANOVA. He came, donated a ton, and got to the top of the hill. Guess what he found when he got there? Not much. If you spend so much money that you are miles ahead of the next strongest player in the whole game, where's the fun in that? Knowing that you can destroy anybody without any effort, and that no one can catch you gets rather boring I would think. Same thing happened with fading3. She quit as well not too soon after she rose up through the ranks. The thing that keeps this game interesting, that keeps guys like Chris, Sarge, and Matt so dedicated, is that there's a challenge. Chris knows he has to stay dedicated to remain on top, as Matt is getting close to be able to bite him in the ass. Me? I know that taking a week off from the game (which I have to do once and a while) can really impact your standings. When I went on holiday I went from about 13th overall to now about 22nd. It's this challenge that keeps the longterm players in the game, and without that, this game would be pretty dry I think.

Wow, long freaking post.

[Guest]

the only thing I'd say about reducing endurance effectiveness is that those that have already put thousands upon thousands of credits into it would be screwed over, hardly fair on them. And even if you did reduce it, that just means those that can will donate even more to boost it higher still.

As to the credit donations diminishing.. dunno about that. Maybe.. but donations help the game, reducing the return is about the same as having a donation cap.

As to cass and fading, yes they both quit- but I know for sure fading quit because he was getting beat on so bad, cass I don't know- but I don't think he was ever stronger than Chris, was he? I thought he quit because Chris, Sarge and Sam beat hell out of him.

Nowadays, with surgery, and the insane endurance, people can fight through this, whereas fading didn't have any outs- he boosted his endurance, but that was a waste of time if you're permanently in hospital.

[Ushanewnewba]

Nice post funkl!

[Guest]

LordSkie Wrote:the only thing I'd say about reducing endurance effectiveness is that those that have already put thousands upon thousands of credits into it would be screwed over, hardly fair on them. And even if you did reduce it, that just means those that can will donate even more to boost it higher still.

Can't say that I agree with this totally, they're already enjoying some signifigant advantages via endurance. We've all got something out of it, so we're not really getting "screwed over" if that advantage is diminished... The down side to this is for cases where the damage is already done. Reducing End effectiveness isnt going to balance those players with ridiculous stats out right away. Over the long run, they may start to drop off however as they no longer see such intense gains from it, they may find a more productive avenue for spending their time (like leveling)

[Guest]

Some information / statistics to think about: as at April 4, 06:23 pm

Sorting users / out of 100

Levels
1st page : 27 donators
2nd page : 59 donators
3rd page : 17 donators
4th page : 9 donators
5th page : 2 donators
6th page : 1 donator
balance : none

ID
1002 - 2715 : 30 donators
2731 - 3846 : 25 donators
3863 - 4615 : 23 donators
4635 - 5179 : 21 donators
5181 - 5623 : 9 donators
5624 - 5767 : 4 donators
5768 - 5910 : 2 donators
5910 - 5961 : none

Number of registered players: 4959 (user id 5961 - 1002)
Active : 732
Donaters : 115

Sort by level : 1st page : 37 players level 20 and above
63 players level 19 and below

Lets assume that of 4959 who created a login to Awakenedlands (100%)
that
Federal Jail ------------------------ 10%
Wrong registered --------------- 20%

Approx (rounded figure) ----- 3500 players minus 732 current players
* let's call players --> citizens

means approx 2768 citizens lost interest in Awakenedlands. that means some concern as this removes liquidity in this land.

If we like being in awakenedlands, the key business is to work towards making non donators into donators (who are more active) and gives bread and water to Zenith and Err to inspire them to greater heights.

So, the balance and refining towards developing and making awakenedlands more interesting is something we all as donators should have. Otherwise, we will have no one to play against and always be fighting and bickering with each other.

While we are intent on being hard criminals and gangsters in this land; we have to remember to give some opportunity and balance for different level groups to come up the ranks.
if we as donators don't do this - whatever we invested in awakenedlands will disappear and i'm sure we don't want that.

Some rules that were (loosely adhered to) created like not attacking on-line players give balance to gang wars and so on - is generally good. And more will thought of by us all as we go along our lives in awakenedlands in order to help to improve the game.

So, some level of humor, attitude and justice is needed. We should help Zenith to bring more citizens into awakenedlands - lets not drive them away.

Having to fight amongst ourselves all the time wouldnt be much fun. Lets help Zenith and Err develope and twig the game as required is essential.

Bishop
* ps - i apologise for any spelling mistakes, amen.

[Guest]

I think Matt said it best and easiest bring levels back into this as a priority, I even think Chiefs idea of a 40/40/10/10 would be an interesting idea as well, but there needs to be more of a balance with levels and stats. Should not be able to buy your way up regardless of the amount you donate, but whatever happens happens, we will adapt

[zenith]

I like the ideas. Yes I wanted to hear people's thoughts. And no I did not intend to belittle the person's mail to me in the forums... I wanted to get an honest response and path to a solution. I love our community, since everyone actually cares about the game. We don't suffer the same ills as many of the games like us, mostly because you guys (and gals) are so great.

I honestly don't expect more donators per 100 sign-ups than we have been getting. I also don't expect 100% of our active players to stick around the entire time. Our sign-up rate > active player > donator percentages have been very consistent since we began, so it's really just a numbers game on getting as many people to see the game as possible. Those who decide they like it here stick around.

Endurance effects on training
Endurance bonus to training has always been around, but one particular person has done a phenomenal job at maximizing it. They didn't find a bug, they found a better way either by stumbling upon it or reading the forums. This was intentional coding on my part, but I did not foresee someone pumping up the endurance the way that has happened.

Endurance bonuses decrease with level, and again this has been since the game began. Endurance bonuses will probably need to be affected by happiness more so than it is now. In fact, perhaps there should be no bonus if your happiness isn't 100%.

Donations
I hope everyone understands that yes donators should have an advantage, and never in my wildest dreams did I think someone would pass Casanova in donations. Yes donations keep us afloat, but we finally bypassed just remaining afloat last month for the first time.


Future Additions
I am working on a redo of jobs, crimes, and education (which hopefully is the next game update) to reward activity. This was already in the works before reading the posts here, it just takes time to make something balanced, even more time now since we have more players. Err has been working on an alteration to our permanent stat mod code to provide "temporary" stat modifications. We don't want to run the risk most other games fall into by releasing new additions without properly testing to see if it works.

I don't want to lead players on to speculate what changes will happen. But someone donating to the top has already happened in the past. There was no remedy as it basically ended in a wipeout of him and a bunch of upset players. But the players who enjoyed playing stuck with us and are still here.

[Guest]

After reading everyones posts, I see that I stand alone.

I donate between 50-100 dollars per month. I buy another 65 day Donator pack, upgrade weapon, armor, and house if needed.

The left over credits, I don't put into endurance, I use them to help my fellow gang members obtain donator status, most times free of charge. I also purchase weapons and armor and sell it to my fellow gang members at a fifty percent discount. I give interest free loans to gang members only, and use my wealth for the advancement of the gang, not just myself.

I know this thread deals with many issues, but I feel if the big donators were more selfless players and helped their less fortunate friends we wouldn't have as many complaints. We would hear people praising the donators instead of complaining about how much money they send Zen and Err.

I know I present no solutions, just wanted my opinion out there.

[zenith]

SteelCurtain1979 Wrote:After reading everyones posts, I see that I stand alone.

I donate between 50-100 dollars per month. I buy another 65 day Donator pack, upgrade weapon, armor, and house if needed.

The left over credits, I don't put into endurance, I use them to help my fellow gang members obtain donator status, most times free of charge. I also purchase weapons and armor and sell it to my fellow gang members at a fifty percent discount. I give interest free loans to gang members only, and use my wealth for the advancement of the gang, not just myself.

I know this thread deals with many issues, but I feel if the big donators were more selfless players and helped their less fortunate friends we wouldn't have as many complaints. We would hear people praising the donators instead of complaining about how much money they send Zen and Err.

I know I present no solutions, just wanted my opinion out there.

No need to be sorry for no solutions. It's good to see the viewpoint everyone has. Generous you be.