[Guest]

Sorry it still makes no sense to me. I must be having a stupid day. Someone with money cannot buy exp and fittness, they can buy the best trainers and facilities.

[Guest]

syntheticdarkness Wrote:okay, so if you train for 1 hour a day for a year vs. training 10hrs a day for 5 months you think the first person should win?
that makes no sense, the person training more should be better!

yes, I agree with that sentiment. however this is not what we're talking about here. we are talking about a couple things, 1st off is when a player can train less, and have higher stats. obviously this is gonna happen but the degree to which it is happening now is absolutely off the charts. 2nd, should level affect battle capability. The obvious answer is yes, people spend time and/or money increasing their level and it should show in their combat abilities, just like it used to. Just like higher stats mean better combat ability, higher level should as well. the degree to which the hp difference affects battles these days is almost non-existent.

[Guest]

It's a letter with some quite good points.

I'm not sure limiting the actual donations is a good idea.. limiting the benefits on the other hand might be.

I can generally spare (being a part time self-paying student and lowish paid worker) about 10-20$ a month but have done very well on that. I'll admit that I'm surprised with that - even though I'm pretty active and on most of the day. I've also been hovering around the 50-60 rankings for some of the main stats. I know the level of activity plays a huge part but some of my old/ex- gang mates can't afford or don't have access to paypal/cards to get some of the things that the rest of us can.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how much the stat/level balance actually changes that... would it make that huge a difference when donators energy refreshes faster anyway? They'll still pull way ahead...

I'm not sure how wide the gap is from where I sit in the lower 20s but you won't see me being able to chuck heaps at the game.. I just donate a little monthly... so I'm not really seeing the full extent of things.

[Guest]

I think the idea is that with attacks, there are decreasing returns as you go, because after 10 refreshes they start getting more espensive. also, there are only a certain number of people anyone is able to hit that give decent exp.

[Guest]

Chris Mangano Wrote:Honestly, make whatever change you feel is necessary, we have adapted before and we can adapt again.

Couldn't have worded it any better myself. Online gaming of every kind has always been about adapting to overcome. Patches come out, new versions come out, game balancing takes place, its all part of a process. You adapt or you fall behind. those are you options.

I dontate quite a bit myself and even I can see how donations (more specifically Endurance's overpowered state) are drastically effecting the game. While I have to admit that getting my buttkicked in 5 turns by someone 5 levels below me is annoying, I think you are close to a "best" stat to level calculation Zen. I like Eagles idea of 40/40/10/10 level, stats, equipment, modifiers (cyberware).

Another idea may be to cap each specific stat to a percentage of your current level. Players are still able to train as much as they want in a stat, but only have it effective to their current level, this would also prevent people who are much lower than they should be walking around in composite and a t450.

I think a big portion of what could help is decreasing Endurance's effectiveness on the gym. For the longest time a 1:1 ratio on energy to stats was the "nirvana" of the stat trainer, now there are people in the 50 energy range trippling their energy into stats (without midlan homes).

I seem to remember a very pertinent post at the time, where you yourself said that you wanted to ensure that donating never effected the game to any large degree such as other web based rpgs. I think it may be time, given the recent amount of donations, to rebalance the donation house.

Perhaps more benign donation prizes are in order, more roleplay intensive such as having a weapon or armor with a custom name as we've seen in some of the competitions. Things that are more status symbols than game altering.

just my .02

[Saerin]

Is there a gap between donating and not donating? most definately

should donators get some kind of bonuses for donating? Yes

there are many ways to give non-donators a chance to compete

example 1:

Make each level worth some Dev points to all stats. nothing substantial but 5 dev points wouldnt hurt too much.

example 2:

make all stats except rep and work XP trainable. Thus the bonuses that donators get would help with their refreshes and being able to train more but would give non-donators a chance.

feel free to blast away at these suggestions.

[Guest]

I can't afford to buy my way to the top so I don't think it's fair when someone else can. But if I had unlimited funds, I'd probably argue the other way. It's kinda like - I can't stand those people with super rich parents who float through life on a cloud, but I kinda wish I was one.

The bottom line is Zen made this game to have fun, let us have some fun, and make herself some money. The people who donate a drekload of money have a drekload of an advantage. And that's probably how it should be.

I've just got to learn to stop drinking so much a donating more than I can afford :? Maybe there should be a breathalizer on my computer.

[Guest]

well, I for one won't argue donators should have an advantage- after all, that's how the game gets money to continue, those people should get benefits. And I don't think changing the donation house now is a good idea, those that have the benefits already would have a totally unfair advantage, and I think the donation house is already set up pretty well.

All that's needed is something to balance it to assist those who can't donate- the person who said about having a stat limit pertaining to your level was onto a good idea, but I don't think that's the best solution. HOWEVER, having a level limit on equipment wouldn't be a bad idea at all, since the idea at the moment is equipment is limited by zone- but you simply get someone else to buy it for you, problem bypassed.

I think that giving levels more benefit really is the ideal solution- they're hard to get anyway, donators still have an edge if they want one. But levels are limited- you can train stats whenever you want (with ridiculous endurance, happiness doesn't honestly matter anyway) whereas you can only attack so many people that give decent xp. Not to mention, higher levels are insanely hard to reach, and energy refreshing will only get you so far- after all, it costs a LOT of credits at the top end for a full refresh.

Ultimately, donators will always have the edge, but levels are something non-donators can at least compete on through activity.

As to the training argument- well, experience always counts for something. You can have a boxer with 10 years experience, only a couple hours training a day fight someone with a years experience, and 10 hours training a day. The experience will seriously offset that, with the added point that excessive training in a short space of time is FAR less effective than prolonged training over a long period of time.

[Guest]

Quote:well, I for one won't argue donators should have an advantage- after all, that's how the game gets money to continue, those people should get benefits. And I don't think changing the donation house now is a good idea, those that have the benefits already would have a totally unfair advantage, and I think the donation house is already set up pretty well.

All that's needed is something to balance it to assist those who can't donate- the person who said about having a stat limit pertaining to your level was onto a good idea, but I don't think that's the best solution. HOWEVER, having a level limit on equipment wouldn't be a bad idea at all, since the idea at the moment is equipment is limited by zone- but you simply get someone else to buy it for you, problem bypassed.

I think that giving levels more benefit really is the ideal solution- they're hard to get anyway, donators still have an edge if they want one. But levels are limited- you can train stats whenever you want (with ridiculous endurance, happiness doesn't honestly matter anyway) whereas you can only attack so many people that give decent xp. Not to mention, higher levels are insanely hard to reach, and energy refreshing will only get you so far- after all, it costs a LOT of credits at the top end for a full refresh.

Ultimately, donators will always have the edge, but levels are something non-donators can at least compete on through activity.

As to the training argument- well, experience always counts for something. You can have a boxer with 10 years experience, only a couple hours training a day fight someone with a years experience, and 10 hours training a day. The experience will seriously offset that, with the added point that excessive training in a short space of time is FAR less effective than prolonged training over a long period of time.

Well said, i like your thoughts

[Guest]

I agree