[Guest]

Awesome! Lets get this thing rolling!

[alinutza]

Druchii Wrote:I think we should try it the way its been put out and see if it works that way

noblebandit Wrote:it would be nice if we test this addition for 1 day so we can really see what are the pros and cons in that proposal... :wink:

[Guest]

I do like some of the concepts there, but I'm not really a fan of the gang slot deletion. What is that saying to people who just spent 2 million on their 20th upgrade? You would completely be slighting the people who have worked real hard to get the money ( and players ) into their gang. If all of a sudden it cost 500k to make new slots, what was all the money for that we just spent making our gang that strong? I do not think that there should be a change in the prices of slots or the use of deletion. Eventually this will become lopsided and do exactly what made you change the code to begin with.

People will start to quit.

The fact that there are gangs that are getting up there in size I think is a good sign for the game and promotes growth. It also shows the hard work that was put in to it by the members. Lets just say 4 11-13 slot gangs wanted to take on the mother load of a 20+ person gang. Lets also imagine that the bulk of the lesser gangs reside in off NA peak hours (which I assume a high concentraton of AL players are from.) Said 20+ gang signs on and after 6 hours of constant beatings they wake up to a 17 slot gang. Slam; 5 million or so down the drain when you were sleeping. If that wouldnt make people salty I dont know what could.

I agree that the current war code lacks some gusto; but I would advise against creating any more things to take away what these gangs already worked hard to achieve.

[Punisher]

I like the reimplementation of pvp combat in war code, but losing a gang spot for losing respect/war is a bit much. Mandatory hospital time is better solution in my opinion. There will no longer be large gangs, and the smaller gangs will always have the advantage with more targets available. Also, there will not be gangs anymore with a wide range of players. This old war concept was geared towards one gang domination. The new code changed that....

You think you have whiners now, wait until players get hospitalized for days on end and lose gang spots. You folks out there that weren't here for the old code read carefully before saying woohoo....

Also, this old war concept was geared towards spending. The one equalizer was not being able to be attacked in anything less than fair condition. If you remove that, and you exit the hospital in serious or critical, now you will have no protection for traveling...you will be forced to eat nimbus before you exit the hospital, thus costing more money. Don't forget the many energy refreshes that will be necessary to fight off an attacker.


Some of the ideas out there are great....districts for non warring gangs....where you could choose the type of gang you are...warring, peaceful, criming, manufacturing....and each district had its benefits to the individual gang members. Like to have your hideout in the warring district would give the greatest bonus for combat, whereas in the peacefull districts you would war but not for respect.

The respect idea is great. Giving wars a meaning and having repercussions for both sides is most definitely needed. But, losing gang slots needs to be rethought imo.

***
edit: " Any win in a gang war will stop a gang battle and vice versa"

if that is implemented, i can see the combination of using gang points for refilling respect and being able to stop the battle/war with either system might work.

[NiteSlayer]

I have been thinking a lot about this and I am not sure I like the losing gang slots. You changed the gang code to Hideout attacks so gangs got bigger. You said this was going to be the way it was from now on. So I personally donated a few times just to help my gang get more slots. Now because people are not getting their share of beating up on someone you are going to change it back to where Smaller more active gangs have the upper hand again. *Hit men for hire can now get a few level 1 members and wipe out any gang here in a matter of a few days. ( *I am just using them as an example it could be any small gang with a few strong and active players.)

I play this game because I can still have a life and not be tied to the computer. I do not want to have to think I have to be on 24/7 just to make sure my gang does not lose its slots. We have a family here in the Bad gangs. I would be forced to leave my family that I have been in for most of the time I have been playing. I would not want to be an liability to them because I had to work out of town for a week and not here to defend myself. Now I can do that and come back and everyone would still be here.

That being said I think the gang war code should be left like you said it was going to be and find a better way for the blood thirsty members of the game to get their rush of stomping on someone. You know in your heart that you are going to start getting players leaving again if the blood baths start again. I also think if you finished something to replace the school. Something a little more active that used energy instead of AP people would stop complaining so much about the gang war code. I personally like it the way it is.

[Jolabent]

I have to agree that I like some of these ideas, but I, too, do not like the idea of losing a gang slot. What would happen to that member if we didn't have money to get the slot back at the time, lose an active player out of our gang?

I like the idea of some sort of PvP style with the gang wars, but like Pun said, being hit while you are in serious or critical condition is going to suck big time. Lower level players are not going to be able to afford the stims/bars and travel expenses to constantly try to stay out of attack mode. This will force low level players to quit or never be in a gang. I know most of my players couldn't afford a lot of stuff since they have been training to equip better armor/weapons/housing etc just to get up to being able to defend themselves during PvP.

[TommiTheTaco]

I don't really like the idea of losing a gang slot. SV and DM wouldn't ever lose a gang slot unless it was against each other..All of the smaller gangs could get attacked by these guys and get all of their gang slots erased easily..

I wouldn't mind seeing the old way of warring implimented, but losing stuff like that kills a gang.

[zenith]

Well, the old system had something that made a much stronger player gain 0 respect for beating a player much lower in level. So a 30 beating a 10 wouldn't be a gain of any respect. I like the "attack a stronger opponent, lose 0 respect if you lose" idea.

Let's look at some examples of how this would work before being absolutely for or against it....

Scenario #1 -

A gang comprising of 5 level 40s decides they are bored and start to war a gang of 20 level 30s. Normally, the level 40s have no chance of losing an individual fight. Normally the huge gang has no chance of losing a war.

Half the level 30s get hospitalized instantly. This gains 10 respect for the stronger gang. A handful of guys in the weaker gang hit some of the easier targets with combined hits. One is taken down for a gain of 5 respect. So after the first wave, the battle is +5 for the stronger guys and everyone in the large gang is in the hospital.

Then the weaker gang gets smart. They declare war. We all know how quickly hideouts can be taken down. Smack, the organized 20-member gang ends the war quickly. No more loss of respect, and they gained 40 gang points to boot. They spend the points to "repair" their respect level back to 99.

Final Result
5-Member Gang of Level 40s = 105 respect
20-Member Gang of Level 30s = 99 respect


Scenario #2

One gang comprising of nine level 10 players a one level 40 do a surprise battle on an offline gang of ten level 9s. Normally the level 10s would have an advantage, but with the level 40 they stand to destroy the other gang. In a war setting they have an even better advantage, since the other gang isn't even online.

The level 40 takes out everyone in the other gang to start off. Problem is, he gets 0 respect for this, and has to wait for 4 hours while everyone gets out of the hospital on their own.

The next wave the level 40 doesn't do anything, and the level 10s attack. They are stronger and have no problem gaining 10 respect points. They do it two more times before the other gang even logs in for a +30 respect point swing.

Then the other gang gets wind of what's going on and initially gets fed up with it and tries to scatter around the map. Individual members of their gang are picked off for another 5 points of respect.

So at this point, attackers have 135 respect, and the ambushed gang has only 65. Two of their number run out of money to jump districts, so are basically cornered. They attack 2 different opponents since they have no clue what they are doing and lose. No respect lost because they are attacking stronger guys. Then they get smart.

The gang gathers in one place and begins to smack the same opponent. Two on ones for these guys normally result in a win. They nail two of the stronger members and gain back 10 respect.

Seeing that they lost their opportunity while the other gang was offline, the two sides stalemate now until they agree to end the battle. The losers have 34 spare gang points, so spend 30 to repair their respect.

Final Result
10-Member Gang of Level 10s and one 40 = 125 respect
10-Member Gang of Level 9s = 78 respect


Scenario #3

A gang of five level-40s want to just stir things up. They declare a battle on three gangs with absolutely NO chance to defend themselves or win any type of war since they are all level 5s.

First round the level 40s strike and hospitalize every single gang member for 1000 minutes each. Crap, they don't get respect for this, so it's a waste of energy.

Final Result
Upset low levels, but no loss of anything but pride. The level 40s lost about 500 stat dev points each though since they attacked instead of trained stats.

[NiteSlayer]

zenith Wrote:Gang Wars - Current Hideouts
The current gang war system was designed so a strong player couldn't delete a gang of 20 just because he was stronger. This was the #1 complaint with the old system. Somehow a large gang had to have some sort of strength against 1 player.

Gang wars will continue as they are. They will be a way for weaker players to stop a hopeless war against a superior opponent, but not a guarantee that it will work. Any win in a gang war will stop a gang battle and vice versa. Gang points will have more uses as well, with more temporary bonuses as well as permanent bonuses.

Edit: Sorry forgot to add my comments. I think making Gang point worth more stuff will change people's opinion a lot it will give more meaning to wars. It is a great Idea and should be put in as soon as you can to see if it helps. When the new gang wars started people did not complain because they had things to do with the gang points. Now the higher gangs are getting bored because they don't see the why they need more gang points. New ways to use them would change that.

[Guest]

it does sound good Zen, it'll make war more interesting for some of us, but id like to see a trial run of it before we actually hold it up and keep it