[Guest]

yup, the higher level you are, the lower that decimal becomes. a lvl 30 may get more exp than a lvl 26 for attacking the same target, but it takes much more exp to level so it takes more attacks. like zen said, simple.

[Guest]

I'm not a moron, I do understand that concept

But does this hold true all the way through the game?

I remember having this discussion a long time ago with Matt- we did the monte test, and came out with a definite decline in XP as you go higher.

That's what I've been expecting to happen throughout the game. But then, in the twenties, pretty much everything started to change. Up till then, by attacking people 1 or 2 levels below you, you got more XP each level. When I hit 20, and moved up to mid twenties, that suddenly stopped- it's like the XP gains got capped, everyone from lv 20-24 gives basically the same XP.

Down at lv 12-16, you'd be looking at a range of something like 90 for the 12's, through to 180 for the 16's.

Now, to turn it further on it's head, suddenly the HIGHER the level you are, the MORE xp you get from hitting the same targets... which, sorry to say, I just don't understand in light of how the rest of the game is played.

If the level 30's are hitting players lv 28 and getting like 350/400XP, that's exactly as I'd expect it. And if they hit lv 21's and got 170/180- that's also what I'd expect. But it seems hitting those high players yields around the same as a 21.

It just doesn't add up to me... that's all. I know higher levels need more XP- that's the way it's been through the whole game. But the XP for the same levelled characters has never increased as you got higher.

[Guest]

I agree that higer levels need more exp to level up but why should they get 300 for hitting someone 2 levels below them and someone who is lvl20 only gets 200 for hitting someone 2 lvls below them. Should the exp be the same all the way through? I think the only things that should effect the amount of exp someone gets is the diff between levels and the diff in stats.

[Guest]

I think that concept in itself is fine... that's how the game works throughout.

But I don't think a high level should get 300 for hitting someone 8 levels below them when a lower gets 250 for hitting someone 2 levels below. That's where I'm seeing the discrepancy.

[Guest]

Quote:I agree that higer levels need more exp to level up but why should they get 300 for hitting someone 2 levels below them and someone who is lvl20 only gets 200 for hitting someone 2 lvls below them. Should the exp be the same all the way through? I think the only things that should effect the amount of exp someone gets is the diff between levels and the diff in stats.

so according to this a level 3 should get 200 exp for attacking a level 1? higher level people provide higher exp.

Quote:But I don't think a high level should get 300 for hitting someone 8 levels below them when a lower gets 250 for hitting someone 2 levels below. That's where I'm seeing the discrepancy.

It's just how the game was made, Zen made each level significantly harder than the last but gave more exp as you level up rather than giving the same or less exp but making each level only slightly harder.

[Guest]

OK. Remember:

zenith Wrote:OK, let me try to explain it again in a different way...

Take the amount you gain for any opponent.
Divide that by what you need for the next level.

The result will be a decimal under 1.00. This is the percentage of XP you have just earned to the next level.

Now start comparing your results from other players. You will notice something simple.

ya, Matts right.

dude, if you look at it mathematically, it makes perfect sense. You need to STOP looking at the experience gains as absolute numbers. That is where you are going wrong. Think percentages. That way your "lower level does indeed get "MORE" for hitting someone 2 levels below, than the higher level does for hitting someone 5 levels below.

IF the game didnt convert percentages into large numbers everyone would be gaining experience by the thousandths of a point, and i have a feeling people would like that even less.

Also wile im at it, keep in mind, randomness will appear more blatant as numbers get larger.... that doesnt mean the effect is any more pronounced

[Guest]

ok, ok. In that case, let's examine that using numbers.

Lv 15, needs 10k (I've got the actual figures, but for the purposes of this, I'll use fictional.)

Lv 20, needs 20k.

You have a guy on lv 13, who 'gives' 100XP standard.

Example 2

lv 25, needs 40k

lv 30, needs 60k

Guy on lv 21, gives 200XP standard.

Tell me how in the first example, the higher level gets less (tests have shown that) yet in the second example, the higher level gets more. Makes no sense.



Now, I thought about this, and think I can at least explain the problem as I see it now. I remember 2 targets very well- Eirikur, who gave 100XP on average, and Monte, who gave 160 on average. Eirikur was lv 13, monte 16.

Now, that shows a marked increase between those two levels. Move forward a bit to lv 21 players, and you're seeing a 240 average- again, a marked increase. Move forward further to lv 25, and the average is still around 240.

That makes no sense. At all. A lv 25 by that logic should be netting you at least 300. As it is, matt says killing Raf still rarely gets 300- a lv 29 should be getting in the 400's.



Now take this away from numbers, and think realistically. You gain experience from combat, logically, by learning. Now in real combat, if you deck a pathetic no hoper, is that going to teach you anything? Or is having a near death fight with someone close to your ability going to teach you something?

Hitting people 10 levels below is not going to advance you much, hitting people close to you will. So logically, as you advance, XP from lower targets SHOULD be less. Am I the only one that sees it THAT way?

[Guest]

zenith Wrote:OK, let me try to explain it again in a different way...

Take the amount you gain for any opponent.
Divide that by what you need for the next level.

The result will be a decimal under 1.00. This is the percentage of XP you have just earned to the next level.

Now start comparing your results from other players. You will notice something simple.

Does that mean that being a lvl 20 (need 23150 or so exp for next level), I will never make more than 231 exp, even if I could beat a guy 3-4 level above me?

Just curious here.

[Guest]

don't think gthats what it means, obviously you get more exp the higher level the person you attack is when you are at any given level. what zen means is that if 3 ppl, lvl 22, 26 and 30 each attack somone lvl 22, the lvl 22 person will get a larger chunk of his exp bar than the lvl 26, who will in turn get a larger chunk of his exp bar than the lvl 30.

[zenith]

matt5250 Wrote:don't think gthats what it means, obviously you get more exp the higher level the person you attack is when you are at any given level. what zen means is that if 3 ppl, lvl 22, 26 and 30 each attack somone lvl 22, the lvl 22 person will get a larger chunk of his exp bar than the lvl 26, who will in turn get a larger chunk of his exp bar than the lvl 30.

This pretty much is what I mean.

Say a level 20, 25 and 30 are attacking a level 19. Assume they gain the following xp, although the numbers might not be exact...

Level 20 = 220 xp / 26,620 xp required = 0.826% of what you need to level
Level 25 = 275 xp / 49,208 xp required = 0.559% of what you need to level
Level 30 = 330 xp / 81,920 xp required = 0.403% of what you need to level

So the level 30 is "gaining more" xp than the level 20 by attacking the same person. But when you look at what is needed to reach the next level, the level 20 is earning "twice as much" as the level 30. If I switched the XP gained display on the attack results page to show percentages, the level 20 would see 0.8% while the level 30 would see 0.4%. The reason we don't show the percentages was because we drastically changed the way XP was earned compared to other games similar to us. In those games, you earn 10% and level in a day, but if you look at the real XP earned you'd drek your pants at how much more a high level earns.

Think about how easy it was to level at levels 1 compared to level 20. A level 1 can earn up to 40% of what they need to level by defeating a level 2. They really only earn 8 XP though. A level 20 gains a lot more XP by defeating a level 21, but a lot less than 40% of what they need to level.

There IS a cap on XP gains. This was implemented to prevent certain "power-leveling" tactics. Basically the more difficult the opponent, the more XP you will gain as a percentage of what you need to level. In addition, you will earn less XP if your opponent is below full health for obvious reasons.


Level requirement numbers taken from http://www.aljunky.com.